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Beast Strafing damage nerf


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#1 Innocentius

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 04:07 AM

Currently, compared to other classes, sniper is the most dominating force when it comes to killing any monster that's not demi-human. When ever someone wants to do something like Cedi, Golden wings quest, pouring rain/etc quests, RDC, etc... most people rely on Snipers. Why? Beast Strafing. It's great that beast strafing was buffed so it's not only limited to beast monsters, but when the enormous damage output is given to all monsters without consequence, it borders the line between fair/unfair in my opinion. I find it a bit unfair since snipers are able to spam this skill multiple times a second and dish out 800k or more damage each time. That leaves every single other class in the dust when it comes to damage per second. Star gladiators can kill MVP's fast, but they also risk the chance of dieing often (as in the case of Cedi).

I know a lot of snipers use the "best of the best" equips, the right elements, etc.. But all this is multiplied even further by the BS formula.

My proposal has a few alternatives to the skill which I thought could keep beast strafing a useful skill, but not give the slogan "If you aren't a sniper, don't expect to do the most damage".

1) Give beast strafing an aftercast delay that can't be reduced. This wouldn't be anything major where it isn't worth using, but maybe 2-3 seconds. This will reduce the amount of damage they can dish out per second, while still allowing them to do heavy damage. By the time a sinx (example) uses EDP and the right equips does 1m damage, the sniper should be able to do about the same. Currently by the time a sinx does 1m damage, the snipers have already done 4-10m. The most common example is people doing 1m-2m damage PER beast strafe on Cthulhu

2) Reduce how heavily STR affects beast strafing. If the information is true, (Link), since we have an unaltered damage formula for this skill, (Str * 8) + 50% damage, when on loki you can easily get 255-310 str seems a bit too much (over 3000% damage?) Maybe the formula could be affected by str, but not to such a degree that people are doing over 1.5m damage each hit.

3) Reduce the amount of damage done to MVP monsters, but keep it normal for regular monsters. This would be similar to the EDP nerf for assassin cross players.

So, that's my proposal. I believe snipers are extremely OP when it comes to beast strafing, and hope something about it can change to make things more fair for other classes. -_-

#2 Syanas

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 01:08 AM

I'd +1 this if it weren't for the fact that Cedi isn't that popular among players these days. Especially when doing tier A, where people try to make a profit off of people looking to get their tiers done but don't have a party to go with (As long as someone asks nicely and has a couple of friends to do tiers with, I'd be willing to spend some time to do them for absolutely nothing).

If people would stop macroing Beast Strafing, that would help enormously with how cheap snipers are for MVPing these days. I still only know maybe 3 or 4 snipers that can hitlock with Beast Strafing without use of a macro. Of course, we all know that's not going to happen :rolleyes:

As for the proposed fixes...

I vote nay for giving after cast delay. It'll definitely fix the issue of people macroing the skill all the time, but it's not fair to those of us that actually do spend the time grinding down our cartilage and tendons to dust doing cedi. Call it a bias, but I simply don't think it's a wise fix.

Nerfing the damage, on the other hand, I would be okay with. When I was leveling my sniper in catacombs (and subsequently, in cedi at level 242 to 255 in half an hour), people were amazed at the damage I was dealing, without using anything more than an MVP bow. I'd still die if I wandered around, but I killed faster than anyone else there. However, you're a bit off the mark as to where the damage actually comes from.

Most of the damage from Beast Strafing comes from your base attack. In fact, recondite rings boost the damage of Beast Strafing far more than Megingards ever could. I've tried balancing my str and dex stats, and they come out pretty much equal in terms of damage.

I'd propose that on anything other than Beasts, that the damage with Beast Strafing be reduced by 25%.

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#3 adventorder

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 01:19 AM

I'd +1 this if it weren't for the fact that Cedi isn't that popular among players these days. Especially when doing tier A, where people try to make a profit off of people looking to get their tiers done but don't have a party to go with (As long as someone asks nicely and has a couple of friends to do tiers with, I'd be willing to spend some time to do them for absolutely nothing).

If people would stop macroing Beast Strafing, that would help enormously with how cheap snipers are for MVPing these days. I still only know maybe 3 or 4 snipers that can hitlock with Beast Strafing without use of a macro. Of course, we all know that's not going to happen :rolleyes:

As for the proposed fixes...

I vote nay for giving after cast delay. It'll definitely fix the issue of people macroing the skill all the time, but it's not fair to those of us that actually do spend the time grinding down our cartilage and tendons to dust doing cedi. Call it a bias, but I simply don't think it's a wise fix.

Nerfing the damage, on the other hand, I would be okay with. When I was leveling my sniper in catacombs (and subsequently, in cedi at level 242 to 255 in half an hour), people were amazed at the damage I was dealing, without using anything more than an MVP bow. I'd still die if I wandered around, but I killed faster than anyone else there. However, you're a bit off the mark as to where the damage actually comes from.

Most of the damage from Beast Strafing comes from your base attack. In fact, recondite rings boost the damage of Beast Strafing far more than Megingards ever could. I've tried balancing my str and dex stats, and they come out pretty much equal in terms of damage.

I'd propose that on anything other than Beasts, that the damage with Beast Strafing be reduced by 25%.


Would love for it to get nerfed but I'll have to -1 since this will only hurt the main killers in PvM environment

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#4 ADCervano

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 02:19 AM

i vote +1 for this, beast strafing has already been abused a lot, a lot of them even use autohotkeys and macro, then they brag like theyre alpha dogs and shit, balancing beast strafing out would give them a very good damage comparison to other classes. Snipers are over rated, if you cut the beast strafing down, it would reduce faster tier A runs, it would cut down bca supplies, further lessening the mvp cards that would come out, in summary, yes it would hurt bs/ds snipers but it would do the economy of the community good

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#5 Rahul

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 02:56 AM

I have to agree with this. Though I dont care too much.
Personally I cant BS much, so even in Cedi I end up using melee with LK card.
I think that its just that when I see people use the skill. I always think, that has to be a Macro.
But, is it even needed? Just bring it a bit down so its good, but not so much better than everything else.

Though Innocentius, you are wrong in one case. I use my Sniper for Cedi, Golden Wings, RainbowRing, and never use BS. Many others dont either because its simply too taxing on the fingers.


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#6 adventorder

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:10 AM

I have to agree with this. Though I dont care too much.
Personally I cant BS much, so even in Cedi I end up using melee with LK card.
I think that its just that when I see people use the skill. I always think, that has to be a Macro.
But, is it even needed? Just bring it a bit down so its good, but not so much better than everything else.

Though Innocentius, you are wrong in one case. I use my Sniper for Cedi, Golden Wings, RainbowRing, and never use BS. Many others dont either because its simply too taxing on the fingers.


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#7 -VaM-

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:08 AM

+1 to nerfing BS damage. Well if Im not mistaken it was buffed to equalize their damage compared to Stargladiators on mvp. Although that is true for Starglads (other classes like champ can also be included) that used angra in mvp rooms.

However, it effects mvp hunters in the non-donate rooms, now BS snipers kill everything in ONE BS!! How do you expect other classes to compete? Its not fair ._.

#8 War

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:51 AM

Though Innocentius, you are wrong in one case. I use my Sniper for Cedi, Golden Wings, RainbowRing, and never use BS. Many others dont either because its simply too taxing on the fingers.


pls do include me on that list of lazy snipers xD

but yeah, changing bs wont hurt the class. there are still crit/zerk snipers around. (which by the way was the orignal preferred type/build/choice for cedi/mvp/quests) ^_^

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#9 Selome

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:56 AM

You want to see if beast strafing is a problem?Go to itty bitty poring city and look for the mvps.Nearly every sniper was macroing.Why you say?Cause i had a party of 2 snipers and a soul linker and we got to the mvp first (it had 100% hp)and then we got it down to 90% then a sniper comes up and starts beast strafing it.

When its all said and done,magically a single sniper manages to outdps all 3 of us to get the drops.LOLWHUT?

#10 Figleaf

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:23 AM

You want to see if beast strafing is a problem?Go to itty bitty poring city and look for the mvps.Nearly every sniper was macroing.Why you say?Cause i had a party of 2 snipers and a soul linker and we got to the mvp first (it had 100% hp)and then we got it down to 90% then a sniper comes up and starts beast strafing it.

When its all said and done,magically a single sniper manages to outdps all 3 of us to get the drops.LOLWHUT?



Simply put, with Beast Strafing as it is, PvM is all about snipers now, when it should be a combination of classes working together to take down a boss as per every MMO should be.

I don't mind the players having the ability to kill MvPs easily, I just want to know that there isn't a pure monopolization of killing mobs by one class, where as said that totally dominates every other class in terms of PvM and by that, other classes aren't really worth using to kill mobs anymore, because they simply can't compete.

Majority of players in Cedi, IBPC, MvP rooms, all snipers.

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#11 Tewnerdy

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:38 AM

I have to agree with this. Though I dont care too much.
Personally I cant BS much, so even in Cedi I end up using melee with LK card.
I think that its just that when I see people use the skill. I always think, that has to be a Macro.
But, is it even needed? Just bring it a bit down so its good, but not so much better than everything else.

Though Innocentius, you are wrong in one case. I use my Sniper for Cedi, Golden Wings, RainbowRing, and never use BS. Many others dont either because its simply too taxing on the fingers.

To Be Honest I've never even known how to Beast Strafe and i use sniper for all types of PvM

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#12 timistee

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:00 AM

My Suggestions:

- Make BS damage as NEUTRAL to all MVPs.
- Adjust BS formula to (Str * 8)/3 + 50% damage.
- Sniper must cast Double strafing TWICE before using Beast Strafing.

- All MVPs are immune to every kind of sniper's skills *troll*. :tardface2:

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#13 R3sili3nt

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:42 AM

I'm reliant on Cedi to make a profit so I'm probably going to be biased here. There will always one or two classes which will dominate all others when it comes to hunting MVPs. Snipers have an intrinsic advantage because they are ranged (which allows them to start dealing damage quicker than other classes while also helping them keep out of harm's way) and they are designed to deal massive damage at range (because of their native self-buffs). Not to mention switching elements is easy and doesn't cost anything for them.

Nerfing BS snipers to the point where other classes can match them with less effort (say point-and-click EDP SinXs or zerked LKs) is unfair to people who've legitimately trained to become fast with the skill. It also won't help balance the competition because it will merely give players some additional leeway into gravitating towards some other class which is good at hunting MVPs. You're not going to see more HPs for example simply because the gap between their class and snipers is narrowed since the gap between them and SinXs, LKs, SGs, Champs, or whatever will still be the same.

Even if BS snipers were more balanced, I'd still prefer to play using a sniper and I'd still recommend them for non-donor. Why? It's because you won't have to spend as much money on berries or pots or verts. You won't have to spend money on mammo or CT or AD or EDP. You won't necessarily have to deal with the inconvenience of zerking. If you're new, equipping a sniper will be cheaper than equipping say a magic class to deal enough damage to be competitive since the cost of one vesper alone is enough to decently outfit a sniper for the MVP rooms. Add some extra HIT and you'll get invited to Cedi parties to be a hitter.

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#14 Ghost Chef

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:15 AM

I'm neutral with the nerf, but if you nerf it then I'd support suggestion #2.

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#15 Figleaf

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:50 AM

Nerfing BS snipers to the point where other classes can match them with less effort (say point-and-click EDP SinXs or zerked LKs) is unfair to people who've legitimately trained to become fast with the skill. It also won't help balance the competition because it will merely give players some additional leeway into gravitating towards some other class which is good at hunting MVPs. You're not going to see more HPs for example simply because the gap between their class and snipers is narrowed since the gap between them and SinXs, LKs, SGs, Champs, or whatever will still be the same.



Don't you think Snipers are already given a massive advantage over the other classes? Not only having big range, they now have the highest DPS skill to monsters. Normal point and click attacks by snipers also do have significant damage already.

This totally nullifies the use of other classes to hunt mobs. In the future, whenever one wants to take down a boss, other classes need not considered anymore, all one has to get is just a sniper.

Your comparison is a bit to the extreme there. HPs were never an attack class to MvP with (unless the mob is undead), but what harm or problem is there in players gravitating towards other classes to deal significant damage to mobs? Look at how it was before BS got buffed. To carry out MvP hunting the class population of players were diverse, there were different sorts of attacking classes, snipers, SinXs, Star Glads. By not supporting the nerf, in future players need not bother about how whether or not their SinX, Wizard or Lord Knight can fight to kill MvPs or not, all they need is just a BS Sniper. Doesn't this severely limit the strategy of taking on an MvP? Otherwise, other attacking classes at the moment have no way whatsoever of outdamaging a Sniper.

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#16 timistee

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:31 AM

Make new dungeons with MVPs for every specific job classes, e.g. Knight dungeon, Priest dungeon, Sinx dungeon, SG dungeon ....

so no more complaint on the sniper class again :tardface2:

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#17 Arthur

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:56 AM

Im in the middle with this. First of all not all of us use macro, just so you know, and as Rahul (since I play fair) I get tired too fast so I just do a mix of DS-BS and simple Click and Hit.

Also snipers without ifrit card and not MAX STATS CHARS cant do more than 900K (and only using a thanatos card which took me long time to get Im not rich), on the other hand get a max stat char + godlike gear/cards and they can do higher than 2M .


I also think that pointing out snipers not exactly the problem in some cases, for example, I used to play SG in Tier A, but honestly the amount of berrys consumed was what made me change to sniper, and in lower tier with Dark Blessing skill been as annoying as it is using sniper is also a good idea to avoid been dead every 5 seconds.


I really dont care if this get nerfed or not, but honestly if things were more fair for other classes this wouldnt be an issue.


In short do what you want, but as long as people have @jump and @showmobs and are able to use max stat chars in places like IBPC hunting mvps will always be unfair. nvm about this, have nothing to do with the topic
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#18 White Boy

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:42 PM

Im in the middle with this. First of all not all of us use macro, just so you know



they mad they cant spam fast :tardface2:

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#19 ADCervano

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:15 PM

they mad they cant spam fast :tardface2:

yea XD

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#20 Tulon

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:43 PM

Are you loko? How I'm gonna kill Chultu then? :(


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